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Asking just in case, do you know if there are brands/manufacturers that are not totally into planned obsolescence ?

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Hello everyone,

Fair warning : this post contains no fapping material (unless you have a really weird fetish). I don’t force you to read it, I’m asking for recommendations for buying a stereo ;)

I’m getting tired of tools and machines dying faster and faster. It’s not only computers or washing machines, EVERYTHING is fucking affected.
If you don’t know the word “planned obsolescence”, have fun googling it, and you’ll be allowed to ask yourself how long this madness can continue in a world with finite resources. Look, do you need a new ipad ? another tech goodie ? Are holidays on the other side of the planet better than 150 kms from your place ? Deranging questions, right ? In a finite world driven by the current economy, as people living the westerner way, pretty much everything you take is “stolen” from poorer or not-born-yet people, from a perspective of energy and resources – spooky !
(*cough* sorry, I lost control of the post’s topic. Oh well, I hope I’ll make you think about the way you live.)

In this regard, I wonder if you would know if there are brands and/or manufacturers that use longer-lasting components than the rest of the competition ?

I have to buy two stereos, an expensive one around 1500€ and a cheap one just around 20-30€. All I’m asking them is to play CDs, USB keys, and the radio – and to be able to do that job perfectly for longer than 3 damn years unlike their predecessors.
If you have suggestions, information and/or hyperlinks, you’re welcome to post them in the comments, I’ll be grateful :)

Yeah, I know, it’s highly unlikely someone will reply “sure, this manufacturer doesn’t play the dirty planned obsolescence game, he’s trustworthy”, but who knows, I risk nothing in asking ;)


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Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

The contents of my post might perhaps have, possibly, revealed I felt relatively pissed off at a cousin boasting he was going to replace his ipad with an ipad2, this cousin having also the delicious habit of spending holidays twice per year on another continent. Surprisingly, he's not driving a 4×4.
Maybe the people are getting the world they deserve, simply.

Votuq
Votuq

"Ceci est une révolution… ll faut tout racheter!"

entropy13
entropy13

I feel some pity that you have relatives (a cousin) who is part of the Sheeple (The Sheep of Apple).

As Charlie Brooker said, the iPad is the most expensive rectangle in the world. So he basically replaced his most expensive rectangle in the world with the new most expensive rectangle in the world. LOL

You have to keep in mind though that Apple and its fanboys (and girls) have their very own reality-distorting fields, so this post may have been too drastic of a reaction…

Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

Apple is not the main problem here, if here were a Nokia or HTC or whatever fanatic, it would be just the same.

The problem is that guy's well-being is purely linked to the possession of reguarly renewed disposable goods.

But even these disposable goods are less a problem than his airplane mania, holidays MUST be far. In his life, that guy will have had probably 50 times more impact on the environment than I did. And he won't see any problem with that.

The only time we talked about ecology, he replied "I can pay for it, so I have the right for it".

That reply was valid in northern Europe around year 1600 and in USA until year 1850. But not anymore.

entropy13
entropy13

Actually Apple IS the main problem here. Why? Because tablets have been here since the late 90s already, but Apple suddenly have something "innovative" when they had the iPad and iPad2 launched. What was previously a niche product was suddenly mainstream, and THAT is what was wrong.

Shalva_sf
Shalva_sf

IDK, does it matter if a person MUST buy a new Apple or BMW? It seems a problem with a person, not a company. Well the company is also at fault, but it's easier to blame a company than to say: "Hey I think smth is wrong with my head and my value system is all screwed (or skewed?)" We now live in a world governed by the need of overconsumption, the need to reach an illusory status that is set by the goods. Thanks to the marketing and Freud's brother. He was smart as hell but fucked us all up for good

Orphan mouse Samson
Orphan mouse Samson

Well I don't know if I think it's a huge problem yet though it's becoming one, but yes people are douches, and they always go for the new, the better, and bla, and this mindless consumerism is fucking up the rest of the world, but it hasn't become a big enough problem for everyone to think like this… well back to the topic at hand I can't think off anything off the top of my head but, and I don't know if I'm saying something you already know, don't buy name brands they always cut corners and the really cheap shit is always cheap, so buy the middle stuff from the companies that are just now being heard about, wow I think I made a pointless comment, yay me…

FUKE
FUKE

Hmm, I'm assuming you're talking about all inclusive stereo equipment. The stereo equipment I use tend to be in the audiophile range, but I say they're worth the money as all of them last a ridiculously long time. I've only had one Lexicon receiver die on me and that was my fault for causing it to over-heat. It was used and lasted 15 years.

I don't know if these companies make all-in-one products, but I'm a fan of Denon, NAD, Lexicon, Machintosh, and Samson.

Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

I'll investigate, thanks :)

The problem is that audiophile quality is damn expensive, and I can't afford that, most probably :-/

gestern
gestern

If it was made in china, don't buy it.
Wait…. almost everything made in china nowdays >.>;

Graverion
Graverion

That's an interesting question and a difficult choice. I only had three stereos in my whole life. The first was a 87' Panasonic. It still alive in my brother's house n_n. The second one was a 93' Sony's DynaPower. It died in the bottom of a chasm, with the truck that carried my furniture when i was moving home falled. The last one is a 2005' RCA RS2203. It still alive, and had USB-SDCard interface, Radio AM/FM and DVD Player… but it doesn't support for AVC streams, only can read MP4's ACC audio stream. It was expensive, $2000 Mexican Pesos (around $180 USDs)…

Graverion
Graverion

Ops, replying myself…
If you are searching for a car's stereo… i can recommend Clarion. Mine was running since… long time ago (several years) without a problem.

Justin Case
Justin Case

Stolen from not yet born?

:|

Seriously?

:|

You make this all sound like some grand evil plan of the Illuminati grand council. Maybe you're just hard on your equipment. I don't have a big stereo, and I never use it anymore, but mine is from about 1997 runs in D batteries and has double cassette decks, and still works. My Sony Discman is about the same age. My PC is four years old now and I shorted out a component of the graphics card at some point running too many SSE2 apps, but she's still going strong. And my mp3 player (off brand, not iPod) is currently three years old and is still like brand new.

But then again I take good care of my toys…

Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

Yep, stolen.

Unless you use renewable resources (like wood, you get the idea OK) or materials available in HUGE quantities even if consumed at a crazy volume (coal), the stuff you're consuming will :
– last less longer for humanity,
– not be available for other persons right now,
– not be available for other persons in the future

When oil will have really ran short, all the kerosene used for holidays people spend on pointless "staying by the swimming pool anyway" holidays other continents, all the plastic for ipads/iphones/gadgets won't be here anymore, making the price for useful uses like fertilizers or drugs skyrocket even more.
But oil is just an example among others. Copper ? Less than 150 years. Helium ? Fuck, less than 50 years – no shit. Lythium ? Depressing. Gold ? Woot, two centuries. Rare earths ? No, I'd be depressed by the details. – Hey, wait, that's if world population stops increasing and keeps the present consumption rate.

Xenor
Xenor

No Oliver, you're not crazy. Production quality sucks pretty bad for many products made these days. Quality control at many Chinese factories is sub-standard.

With Apple, it is definitely part of their plan. The technology was available to make the iPhone 4 when they made the first iPhone. But you don't get to be a darling of the stock exchange unless you ship millions upon millions of units each year. But the same could be said for HTC. The whole cell phone industry thrives on you buying a new device every 1-2 years.

FWIW, my Creative Labs Zen have lasted for years. The same is true of my Onkyo stereo/amp. I hove owned several Creative Labs products, but this is my first and only Onkyo (5 years).

Sometimes, you have to find a technology you are happy with and just stick with it. My Onkyo doesn't have HDMI, or bluetooth (for example). No XM/Sirius radio either. It doesn't play MP3 natively. But it has surround sound (Dolby Digital) and still works.

Its up to us as consumers to vote with our dollars, and buy products that we know are made in a respectable manner. I wonder how many yuppies would buy the next Apple iPhone if they knew it was made in a Chinese sweat shop that used child labor and did little to protect its workers from harmful chemicals? Now you know why Apple is so tight-lipped about its supply chain.

Tell you cousin that it must suck to never be happy with a product and always need to upgrade to the newest flashy thing. The amount of money he wastes could probably feed a few families in a third world country or help a teenage girl upgrade herself to a big Titty-Monster rack. :P

Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

The problem is that if there is no more alternative choice, fuck how can we even vote with our money, you see the idea.

As for my cousin, his opinion is simple (cf another comment of mine above), if he can pay for it, he has the right for it.

lolu
lolu

Everything is planned into obsolescence. At least if you live in a capitalist country.

Shalva_sf
Shalva_sf

Ha ha, and socialist ones are different and better. Coming from an ex-communist country I can tell you it's no better there, even worse in some cases

siinseal
siinseal

First a link to the fully translated Boshi Double Soukan by Izayoi Seishin to make good for the following ranting. (I havent noticed the full version on this site) http://www.nekohentai.net/category/izayoi-seishin

“Planned obsolescence” is a problem. I might as well spread a link to a free documentary about it and the "interest system". (Real problems, no real solutions.) http://www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com/

On the cellphone note. The record time for developing a new cellphone is currently about 3 months. Think about all the parallel designing and prototype creation. Frightening and probably prone to mistakes. All in the name of being the first to come to the market with a new feature.

As a student studying electronics at university, I must say the following. Electronics is a compromise in every possible way. A compromise between development time, cost, components chosen, environment friendliness, power consumption, physical size, standards used, lifetime, ect. Making a design better in one field usually means sacrificing others. Virtually every design can be improved, the gains of doing so just dont outweigh the costs.

Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

Not blaming you, but I'm sharing the complete version, you know, me too :D

Real problem, no real solutions. The words I could have used if I were better inspired ;)

Cellphone compromise between various factors : quite interesting, thanks !

Shalva_sf
Shalva_sf

Ha, reminded me of a great strip about software updates http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com

siinseal
siinseal

Almost forgot. When choosing audio equipment prefer products with a larger weight and size. These two things usually mean better heat dissipation and larger components that have a longer lifetime.

Mordeth
Mordeth

Geez, where went the old german technology ? It was big, ugly, not very efficient, but almost indestrucible. My granny had a washing machine for 40 years. In lot of universities and factories, you can find ancient pieces of german mechanics, still working, even if nobody knows how to operate them anymore.
Oh, glorious time of DDR ;)

Jackson
Jackson

@20-30€: Sometimes it's easy: Simply buy a piece of crap-like china stereo, keep the bill(!), and after one and a half year, do some subtle damage yourself. Then return it to the huge company you bought it from as still under warranty. Since the checking & repairing would be rather expensive, they'll most likely hand out a coupon. And the best part is you'll now get better stuff for 30€ than 1 1/2years ago.

@expensive one: Like others say, go into the audiophile category and/or consider re-buying an older, used stereo from times when they still used to "build to resist" (USB can always be added in via AUX or something..)

Mark E
Mark E

I can only say if you do not want to support obsolescence, don't buy Sony products!! Sure they make great products but as soon as they develop something newer, BAM, they drop the older models AND DO NOT SUPPORT THEM. (The latter is what really tweaks my nerve!!)

Mattrulez
Mattrulez

I still have a regular cellphone, never got an iphone, Droid, etc. lol

S.R.C.
S.R.C.

I have had 3 stereos in my life;
My fathers old Technics (from the 70's) Quadraphonic which STILL works, just need to change some funky switchs and dials out.
The second was my aunts old Sony (from the late 80s / early 90s) That works great.
The last is an RCA like… 100$ one, first thing i did was tear it apart and upgrade the shitty fan/ heatsink in it (for the amp) with a much better and QUIETER one. I still use the one ATM for my PC with fibre DD

The thing i always say is it's not the company that matters, it's the product. The company is just there for support which usually sucks now.

I work in the IT service field so I am working on server and PC systems all the time and I can tell the time and care they put into the stuff that big companies get (mosty) and the lack of it in all others for small bis and home users… its just sad sometimes.

Ayanami251379
Ayanami251379

For electronics I recomend Samsung ( Not Cells, just like TV, Screens, ect. ), for PC, intel, asus, nvidia, seagate.
for cell it would be Nokia ( I had have a old nokia and it just cannot break and my 5800 havent given me any problems, in fact I can do more with it than my blackberry torch )

my PC system is solid, like mentioned above, no problems, except for my LAN port

Oliver AKA The Admin
Oliver AKA The Admin

Will investigate, thanks :)

Shield41
Shield41

Glad to help! X3

Shield41
Shield41

I suggest the JVC KW-NT3HDT
as an expensive system, but it is quite nice.

Error
Error

My suggestion is to buy something relatively old that has already proven to last years and years more, but can still match your needs. I still got my god knows how old Technics and as S.R.C. already commented I too had to make some adjustments to match my needs but it works better than my friends Apple crap along with he's 3rd iPhone.
Haven't really used any other audio systems except done some upgrades with speakers and I'm not an expert with this stuff so I'm not going to tell you which brand is the best.
I also agree with Oliver's opinion about our modern, expendable society!
And entropy13 is right about Apple fanatics!

Pat
Pat

I share your opinions on the society of disposable. Today, for cheap product, the less bad are Korean ones, like samsung.

r_lexter
r_lexter

I would love to see two types of products. Cheap products not build to last but easily recyclable and expensive products build to really last and to some degree recyclable. Sadly we just seem to have cheaply made products, poorly recyclable and sold for cheap to expensive prices.

Sad world we live in. I make things last until they stop working, even if I desire that new product no way I’ll buy it when I have something already that works.

Hentai-man
Hentai-man

J'ai bien peur Olivier que dans notre monde actuel "l'obsolescence programmée" existe dans tous ce qui touche à la société de consommation. Les seuls cas rencontrée récemment de non-obsolescence date d'avant la chute du mur de Berlin, en Allemagne de l'Est. Car l'industrie communiste n'avait pas comme objectif de produire à outrance pour que l'économie puisse tourner !

Les seuls qui puissent exister (à mon avis) de produit ayant pour objectif la plus longue durée d'utilisation, c'est le BTP et tous ce qui touche aux transports (aéronautique, aérospatiale et les équipement destinés aux militaires).

Je conseil vivement de regarder ce documentaire en français : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh1jtq_l-obsoles

Gomfs
Gomfs

depending on how you are going to get the stuff i can say that most "high-end" stereo manufacturers today have and do make stuff that last and last, because their "name-pride" hangs mostly in a thin tread.
if you are going for new stuff i would recommend Parasound for the more expensive setup.
some of their 2-ch intigrated amps are good stuff (at least at the inside, my work is basically service of audio and video equipment so i have opened some of em)
99.98% if those that got ipod connecton or usb input is mostly junk. get one that dont have it and get for example an Cambridge DACMagic for all your usb+digital to stereo needs in a little and good sounding box.
DACMagic is a little old so it might be something newer on the marked now, but just google it and you know what that thing does ;)

if you are getting a used system i would go straight out and got myself a ElectroCompaniet ECI-2 or ECI-3 amp or something from the small but well known producers from Europa, japan or usa (Krell and Accuphase for example, Meridian is also quite good but a little to "modern" on the inside making them a little complicated to handle. keep away from the big china, Korean and Japanese manufacturer, specially Sony)

if you want an Receiver (integrated with radio) i would recommend the "old-school" Japanese ones like the colossal Pioneer SX-1250 (that thing is a "little" to BIG, but solid built and survives mostly everything) or the Trio-Kenwood KR serien (KR-4010 for example)