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Some more food for thought

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Heya everyone,

I just caught up on the (currently) 178 comments in my Muhammad post about the Charlie Hebdo shooting in France. I also didn’t write an answer when other cool guys wrote just what I was thinking.

While I want to thank (so much !) everyone, and send bear-like hugs to a great number of people, I thought I ought to write those follow-up thoughts.

– We CAN’T censor ourselves because we’re saying/writing/drawing something the muslims find highly offensive.
Look, if we censor stuff because we’re offending the muslims, we must also censor ourselves when we offend other people.
We’ll stop laughing at this. At that. Oh, wait, those other guys are finding it offensive. Am I dreaming, or do those other guys even find this other stuff offensive ?
In the end, WE WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO DISCUSS ABOUT ANYTHING AT ALL. NOTHING WOULD BE LEFT.
And then we’d lose choice over what to eat.
What to wear.
What to watch.
It’s sometimes terrifying to joke while knowing criminals can’t take that joke, but this is a necessary form of courage, it’s also a defense of the core values behind free speech. The people who died were not only victims, they were also martyrs.
So, I’m sorry, to the muslims out there, but you don’t have rights superior to the rights of other people.
And since we don’t want to censor everything, we won’t censor ourselves about what annoys you precisely, we must be allowed to talk even if it hurts you.

That’s free speech, it’s all-or-nothing-within-the-bounds-of-law, so as long as we’re within the bounds of law, this is : all.
And, come on, you don’t need to listen to all retards on Earth, just ignore them. That leads me to…

– Second point, now. What then, of those offending Muhammad parodies ? Hey, it’s easy, just look away.
Just. Look. Away.
That would have been different a century ago, but now, there has been globalization, and internet to double the effect : cultures are now in perpetual contact with each other. There are frictions. Frictions, everywhere.
All those demands that I take off that Muhammad picture only mean you would hope our zones of contact stop existing on a particular topic while remaining on other topics : this is not possible, not because I don’t want, but because it is impossible. So, you need to accept that materials incompatible with your tastes exist, and if you didn’t manage to avoid being exposed to them, once again : look away, move on, that’s the only possible choice of action.
I wouldn’t visit a charia-ruled country and start shouting silly shit like “MUHAMMAD LEL FAG” or draw these cartoons on the walls of a mosque : in a muslim country I would respect the muslim laws. I would abide by your rules, because I would respect you on your ground. But equal respect of my ground is expected.
And in borderless friction zones where both groups coexist and where all opinions are voiced at some place or some other, like the internet, then, back to what I began with, no choice : look away, move on, when you find a page offending you.

– Third point, the limits of free speech. It’s true, there are limits. The law defines them. So, you, the muslims, if you don’t like that my country allows those parodies, you are entirely free to try to talk to all politicians about it, and only vote (if you’re French) for politicians supporting stronger censorship.
Until then, if we the French make cartoons ridiculing the jews, the catholics, Muhammad and the muslims, it is normal that we can do so (once again : we won’t be talking about anything anymore if we accept a group has the right to silence us on a topic offending them, because after this we’d have to accept requests to shut up from everyone else too).

– Fourth point : would anybody deserve to be killed because he/she expressed an opinion ?
If you think the answer is “yes“, all islamic authorities call you “shaitan”, I believe. As I understood it : scumb bound to burn in hell.
If you think the answer is “no, no, but they certainly had it coming and kinda deserved it“, then you are a coward and you don’t have the courage to openly confess you were thinking “yes“. Yes, I’m insulting a good number of “you” with that last line, but : think about it. Be courageous enough to think.
Once again : be courageous, think for yourself, not as religion requires.

And, lastly, let’s avoid competition about pain, no killing is legitimate, NONE. Look, in a few days, the Boko Haram islamic fanatics razed over 16 villages and killed over 2000 persons. I hope the afterlife exists just so these monsters burn in hell and experience endless excruciating pain ! Sorry for all their victims :(


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biribiri

Was gonna tweet you, but 140 char limit. You're forgetting about one most important point. When you feel offended, attacked, insulted or threatened by something that may still be within the boundaries of law, you go to court, that's the way democracy works, you don't go on a murder spree. You cannot swipe everything under "look the other way", you certainly can't, but there still are instruments for you to use that could prove to get your point across better than killing people for whatever reason.
I was thinking about commenting earlier, but I kinda wanted to avoid it, because I'm impulsive and could've said something idiotic or radical.

Mederic64
Mederic64

That wasn't impulsive, nor idiotic. :)

Abdul Azis
Abdul Azis

well, your comments were impulsive, idiotic, and radical in the eyes of …err, those radicals :D
(don't get me wrong, I'm thinking the same as you, I'm just making a joke here, well a bad joke perhaps)

Ish
Ish

Totally agree. Charb (one of the victims) said one day : "I rather die standing up, than live kneeling down". (rough translation from french)

Dramatic that these words have been put to the test.

Alex Gu
Alex Gu

I don't think it's necessary to try to reason with these retards. If they can be reasoned there wouldn't be any shooting at all and ISIS and Boko Haram wouldn't exist. In most parts of the world, Muslims are okay people but Muslim Arabs are different species entirely. They don't even respect their fellow Arabs, how can you expect them to respect us who are so different?

I personally think the European countries would become wiser and DEPORT any jobless Muslim Arabs out of their country because they are the seeds of the problem (those who have jobs tend to be smarter and more reasonable of course). Take a stronger stance on accepting immigrants from the middle east especially. Australia and the Scandinavians already have, it's time the rest of developed countries take the same stance.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Only two people know how to hold in leash radical islamist: someone Saddam H. and Muamur K. but we know where they are(

itoyokofan
itoyokofan

Plus Bashar A. and Husni M. etc etc Despite being dictators they were holding back radicals and islamists in their countries. If you overtrow people in power countries become unstable and it's always a civil war that follows. If regimes in Iran and Pakistan fall what you'll see are terrorists with nuclear weapons. And if Erdogan will be overtrown you'll see civil war in Turkey between turks and kurds, the exact kind you see now in Ukraine. This doesn't mean that dictators or strong leaders are good, that means that revolutions are worse than wars.
If I must say, arabian spring made the world much worse place, and turned the countries with overtrown regimes into even bigger shitholes. Thus Europe will from now on recieve even more illegal migrants from middle-east. One way to deal with it in my opinion is to stop supressing Iran and to let it prosper, this way arabs will go live to this country where they can assimilate much easier than in Europe.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Yeah, but if Saddam was real dictator, Kadaffi was not so bad his crime was at the level of greedy mayor in little town, and ignition of revolution obviously was planned. Assad maybe used chemical weapon but he handed it all and terorist used it against him.
You know how Kadaffi supressed interfaith battles in country? He gathered leaders of all tribe curds shiits sunites and give them seats of minister. And war was ended. And then he was killed country break on three parts with islamist radical is the leader of one.

In Iran i dont think that they have nuclear weapon, they just dont have necessary tehnology, BUT they have reactors that have Uran that can be used for dirty bombs. And if islamist take over this country they can purdge not just ten people but whole town.

nanana
nanana

if you want to reason with these retards (the extremist), bring AK47 with you..

DC123
DC123

Oliver, I read your comment about my post and I think you are misunderstanding my words. I don't condone terrorism. I like freedom of speech and dislike censorship as well. But I don't think that saying what you want is worth the loss of life in this particular case. If the publishers were to make parodies of Muslim religion, I would say it is fine. But specifically using words like "still no attacks in France” is dangerously provoking and is not funny. It is daring the terrorists to make a move, and what good will that bring? Would you dare terrorists with those words and potentially have them harm people you care about? If they were making jokes and saying it to tolerant and sane people, I wouldn't bat an eye, but they are specifically using provoking words towards insane people like terrorists. In that case, is it freedom of speech or just bad actions?

DC123
DC123

Adding on to what I said, I have no problem with the publishers and their general material, but specifically mentioning those particular words is the problem. Provoking people is never a good reason. Saying that the terrorists can look away is one thing, and I think that if they were not specifically targetted in this case, they would have overlooked it. And that is the point I am trying to make, the publishers made a bad choice in words and it provoked the foolish murderers that stole the name of another religion.

Daedalron
Daedalron

The words you mention ("still no attacks in France") might have been going too far. As a satyrical journal, Charlie Hebdo was often going quite far in their opinions, be it against politicals or any religions. But those words you mention are still in no way responsible for the attack, as the attack was clearly planned before this specific drawing was out.

DC123
DC123

I'm sorry to ask, but can you point out the article where this attack was planned before the specific drawing was out? I need to see and compare the dates of the drawing being published and the attack. But putting this aside, I'm sure you understand the gist of my words, that provoking a dangerous creature is not something to be done lightly unless you can assure the safety of the action.

Daedalron
Daedalron

The specific drawing was published the exact day the attack was commited. And given that the terrorists waited for the redaction conference to do the attack (so as to have everyone from the journal in a single place), this wasn't something that was decided at the last minute.

Ish
Ish

I get your point, but where is the limit ? If they say that they are gonna kill every women not wearing a niqab, are you going to ask your wife to wear one ? If they ask to only eat halal or be on their death list, are you going to do it ? Or every one not praying to the coran, are you going to convert, by fear ? Because of the danger ?

Where do you draw the line if you begin to say "yeah, there is a risk, let's do what they ask"

DC123
DC123

I see your point. However, I'm sure you can tell there is a difference between specifically "inviting" an attack, and choosing not to do soemthing you don't believe in. Not using those words do not affect us in any way, while wearing a niqab and only eating halal does. Not to mention, it would only go against our basic beliefs in our faiths. However, the choice to provoke or not to provoke terrorists is something that doesn't require a huge decision or choice. Despite the lack of a huge decision however, the consequences are severe.

Evil Pancakes
Evil Pancakes

Just wondering, but do you tell the same thing to a rape victim? That if she didn't want to be raped, she shouldn't have dressed all sexy like? Because that's the kind of logic you are applying here. Nothing a satirist or a writer, etc. can do deserves or invites the kind of response it got. No non-violent action is never deserving of a violent reaction. Hell, most violent actions don't deserve a violent reaction. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and all that.
And I'm sorry, but the freedom of speech IS part of my basic beliefs. The only limit I see in freedom of speech is whether a factual claim is true or not.
Furthermore, I find that if some extremist morons thousands of miles away get to decide how we live our lives or how we structure our society, what we can or cannot do, to be even more severe consequences.

hitchmeister
hitchmeister

what, did you miss that part about how they are crazy?

freedom of speech comes with a price: freedom of speech MUST mean a freedom to offend (and criticize) and those who are offended do not always act rationally – especially when they are not so strong in that suit in the first place.

DC123
DC123

I don't understand your analogy of telling the same thing to a rape victim. Dressing sexy for the general public vs. taunting terrorists specifically are different, because in the case of dressing sexy, the person is not actively trying to provoke the rapist, while in this case, they were taunting the terrorists.

Freedom of speech is indeed the basic right of every human being. However, there are things that we can but shouldn't do. Especially if it can cause the loss of life. I'm not saying that these poor victims deserved to die, however, their words pushed the terrorists into aiming for them. I am sure even you know that taunting an insane person is a foolish action. It is not the faults of these people for writing their material. We do have to acknowledge however, that their actions were dangerous.

I agree with your notion that extremists should not dictate how we structure our society, but choosing your words carefully is not a matter how structure and society. Freedom of speech is something beautiful. But like all things, if used in the wrong way, it can have consequences.

DDG
DDG

The analogy is quite clear: for a rapist the victim dressing sexy is inciting him. Note that until quite recently, in quite a few European countries, dressing with tight pants or short skirts exonerated rapists on formal courts because the victim was provoking them. And this is still true in some countries on the world.

The logic is the same, and is cowardly. If you cave in on this extortion, and stop saying whatever jokes or drawing satirical pictures because that particular brand of offended people are violent, you are just proving that other offended people (catholics, dwarfs, blondes, left handed, people from this town or the other) are just being shy, and they should start buying AK-47 to shut you up.

Now I'm not saying shutting up is bad. Freedom of speech is a right, and as most rights it was earned, most times hard earned with blood and some. Many people died to get us that right. These people died defending the freedom of speech and from my point of view, for that, they are heroes. Not everyone is a hero, not everyone can say I prefer to die rather than to lose this right I got from my parents. But to say that they should have not published something, that is worse than being a coward. It's being a coward and exalt and praise cowardice.

DC123
DC123

"Dressing sexy for the general public vs. taunting terrorists specifically are different, because in the case of dressing sexy, the person is not actively trying to provoke the rapist, while in this case, they were taunting the terrorists."

I hope you read this part.

Also, I never said they should not have published anything. I said that there are certain things that they should not have said. For example, an ordinary joke would be:

Q: How does a Muslim close the door?
A: Islams it.

What wouldn't be funny:

"I wonder why the terrorists haven't attacked us yet. Maybe it's because we are not Halal"

The difference? The latter addresses the Terrorists directly, also the words are very provocative and is daring them to make an attack. I am sure you understand the difference. Also, if in your opinion, saying these words make me a coward, I would rather be labeled a coward if it means people not dying.

DDG
DDG

My point with the analogy is that "dressing sexy, the person is not actively trying to provoke the rapist" is a nobel idea, and was not shared by judges in some European countries up until recently and is still not shared by judges in some non-European countries nowadays.

The second is that freedom of speech came to be after a civil war (frech revolution) and a freedom war (american independence). It was earned with the lives of many people. Would I die for it? Probably not. But I can only admire people who is willing to do just that.

Actually I think the second joke is more amusing (the first one is just lame). It's also risky? yes. But saying that it should not be done is like saying that we shouldn't fight against criminals, or against political corruption on some countries because that means people not dying. It's not only that it's coward, it's not true. People like that, terrorists, don't value human life. They would have killed other people eventually, because that's what terrorists do. They would have been offended by some other stupidity because people like that is too easily offended and always finds an excuse, eventually.

DC123
DC123

Your point about them being offended and eventually finding someone else to kill is true. That said, it would probably be farther down the road and in that time, many things could happen, like the criminals slipping up in their preparations and being caught, or Al-Qaeda being blown out of existence (way too hopeful but one can dream).

I cannot agree with your comparison of dangerous jokes and fighting criminals. Dangerous jokes serve to do nothing but create tension, while fighting criminals is something that saves lives. If I had to fight against a criminal or corrupt politician, I would do so without thinking twice. In the case of dangerous words like that, who benefits from it? Some people may get a few laughs maybe, but it wouldn't save a life.

DDG
DDG

A right that is not exercised doesn't exist. Self-censorship kills freedom of speech faster than imposed censorship.

That said the comparison was just about the people dying, not about the social benefit of the action itself. But not publishing something because it's a risk effectively kills your freedom of speech. Now you can try to balance what you want to say (it's obviously not the same to, for example, publish prove against criminals or disclose their actions than to publish a joke) with the risk. But the fact remains that they chose to exercise they right to speak knowing the risks, and that is heroic. They knew that they could get killed over that and did it anyway, and that is heroic.

Also saying that we make fun of everything but islam because they are crazy is a slippery slope. People is entitled to make fun of ideas, that is how our ideas evolve, how society improves, how we got out of the middle ages. If you stop criticizing or making fun of ideas or things because it's risky, soon enough you won't be able to criticize or make fun of any idea worth criticizing or making fun of.

DC123
DC123

Well DDG, let's agree to disagree on our opinions. However, let's agree that terrorists are insane disillusioned bastards and should be eradicated. And lets agree that those people should not have died, no matter what they had written. My words never condemned them for what they wrote, I just felt sad that their writing pointed the weapons of the terrorists towards them.

Blackshard
Blackshard

there really are no taboo subjects?
They try sometimes to draw caricatures on agression of NATO in middle east or maybe on saudit Sheikh who sponsored islamist?
Or they dont draw it because for that they can be punished?

hitchmeister
hitchmeister

i'm sure if a mafia boss told you to stay quiet about certain things you wouldn't open your mouth just because you wanted to practice your personal freedoms. being killed for it wouldn't make you a hero, it would make you an idiot.

freedom of speech is not under attack at all. freedom means choice: and the choice was always there whether or not to publish the cartoons and that choice is not going anywhere.

you are failing to tackle the problems at the source: that of the terrorists and the hypocrisy/idiocy that is organised religion.

expecting crazy, violent people to act in a sane, rational way is the very essence of stupidity.

Oliver AKA The Admin

I'm reserving my answers for when I have more time (like, tomorrow, hopefully), but your comment was SPOT ON, mate O_o

So : it's never been about being rational with fanatics.
Obviously, how could it hope to make them change their minds. Not them.

It's always been about talking with the ones who are rational, and who might change their mind, and cease with the "still, they deserved it" argument :)

In this regard, I saw very few insults, and I witnessed everyone debating with intelligence. More than on most non-adult websites, guys, you are something O_o

Anyway, now, I'm off. Took 40 minutes to prepare two shares, it's slow by my book and I'll need my sleep now.
++ later

Hroldor
Hroldor

The problem Oliver, is you are trying to relate a civilised ideal, the Freedom of Speech, to groups of people who hold their religion over personal civil liberties.

1000 years ago drawing pictures such as this against Jesus would have resulted in burning at the stake. Many Islamic people's are still in this form, their nations still follow the most extreme views of the religion and enforce by law. Look at Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the new Islamic State. To them, the offense against their religion requires action, in their own and other nations. It is required. Civil liberties are second to this, so they make attacks like last week and in Denmark a decade ago.

Islam is in that middle stage where you have many turning moderate and not following the rules to a letter, while others still follow it, kill for it, and do what they see as required by the religion. Christianity went through this maturing period centuries ago. The issue is there are still huge, huge numbers of Muslims who follow the latter, especially in the poor, undereducated regions.

In centuries I imagine Islam will be in the same part as Christianity, in that people do not follow the rules to a letter, can't accept people disagree with it and can satire it, etc. Right now, millions can't.

Freedom of speech is a right of humans, and legally, in France and the West, it is legally protected, but it does come with consequences, as all decisions do. We just have to be willing to accept what happened, and what will certainly happen in the future.

Blackshard
Blackshard

And you are claiming Iran? Do you know that in 50th years of 20 century It was trying to become secular state? you can look at history to find what was after. Also in Syria, Libya was aainst radicalism and trying to promote more liberal laws, like NOT killing someone if he want to change faith.

Jose
Jose

I agree with everything you wrote. Let me point out that all electric and electronic devices, have a switch off button, for us to stop listening to what we do not want to hear or see. We can choose to see or hear, only what we like. If we are a little more curious or clever, we listen to some of the things we may not like, so that we understand their point. And at the end, use your phrase "think for yourself" not as anyone else requires. Because you are an individual human being, not owned by anyone. You are FREE!
Merci.

l'arahat
l'arahat

Great job to the french police for capping 3 of them,
but how did they let the woman get away? There must
have been hundreds of police there with all exits blocked.
At least they should have detained all hostages for a debrief
Before letting them go. Still it saddens me how anyone can get
So worked up over mere cartoons. Reminds me of how l felt when
l heard about Buddhist monks leading attacks on Muslims in Burma
(I am Buddhist btw). Remember fanatics can only florish when they
Can act on their twisted ideas and coerce others into doing so. If they
Can't act on their hate then they can't maintain or spread it. Public
Sanction carries a lot of weight in that respect. It used to be in the
US that people could openly lynch black people to satisfy their hate.
If they did it now, it's a lifetime behind bars and shame for their families.
That's why you don't see all that hate anymore. I hope the Muslim world
Can get its act together soon (no offense) because a Western democracy
Can show much more cruelty and ruthlessness than ISIS ever could if
Driven far enough.

Daedalron
Daedalron

They didn't get the woman get away from the hostage situation. She wasn't there in the first place.

They're researching her because she was one of the terrorists lover, and was probably involved in a shooting of a policewoman which happened the day before. She also would have known about the attacks (plus many photos with her and guns, and using her phone as a link between the 2 groups).

Blackshard
Blackshard

Its reaaly pitiful, that all you can laugh on or talking about is insulting someone.

And i allready say: Why not allow people to fuck on main square because it is freedom of expression, one of postulate of democracy.

DDG
DDG

Everything slightly meaningful you can think of or joke about will insult someone. We are 7 billion people, a lot of them with the sense of self-importance and infallibility of a 4 year old. You want to talk about using condoms? You are offending a good deal of people. You say than on the countryside sometimes smells like shit because of the fertilizers and animals, you are offending people (actually they had to remove an ad in Spain because of this). You say you don't like a music band, a type of music, a particular movie, a football team… you are offending people. Actually your comment is quite offensive.

So it's not pitiful, it's a fact. Deal with it.

Palimpsest
Palimpsest

It's really a fact; almost all humor is offensive to SOMEBODY. Jokes that are completely inoffensive are also not very funny.

The main reason there are laws against fucking on the main square in most countries is because most people in most countries believe that some activities, including sex and defecation, should be done in private.

If the magazine Charlie Hebdo offends you, then don't buy it. If you sincerely believe that NOBODY should be ALLOWED to read it, then try to get it banned by the French government. It was banned once before, when it published cartoons insulting Charles Degaulle. It was called Hara-Kiri back then. If you fail to get it banned, then suck it up and learn to live with it. Grow up!

mostly people
mostly people

I agree. we can do WHATEVER WE WANT.

like when we intentionally bring cats to someone place who allergic with it just because "we don't have allergic", or killing/torture stray dog/cat because they stole our food from our open wide window, or badmouthing people because they're ugly or fat or whatever because it's the "fact". we can do WHATEVER WE WANT regardless of THEIR CONDITION and we just do it INTENTIONALLY. why? because REASONS, we just want to make them pissed off right. FUCK ETHIC, FUCK MORAL, FUCK RULE. LOL

btw I like how people blame ALL MUSLIMS or even ALL RELIGION because of those incident.
like when there's a single african-ameircan guy doing crime, people commit WHOLE RACE being criminal, or when there's plenty of people with obesity in USA, people commit that WHOLE COUNTRY obesity. it's common way of thinking. it's natural. LOL

generalization is one of my favorite way of thinking, its fast, easy, simple. the side effect? who cares.. LOL

Evil Pancakes
Evil Pancakes

Bringing a cat into the house of someone who is allergic is a dick move. However, that does not give him/her the right to kill whomever brought that cat into the house.
If someone says something, or writes something or whatever, that offends you, you can handle that in a civilised manner. Like maybe you can just ignore it, or start a discussion. Anything a reasonable person would do. Freedom of speech does not mean a right to be heard.
I recently watched a film that greatly offended me, on many different levels. (God's not dead, if you must know) But I don't go around killing the people who made it, or the people who did like it. I ignore it and go on with my life.
And if you don't want everyone to blame all muslims, then don't try to fucking excuse the actions of these psychopaths and act like Charlie Hebdo, or any victims of any terror attack anywhere, had it coming. Condemn these acts and show the world you actually live in fucking 2014 and not 1014.

Evil Pancakes
Evil Pancakes

I'd like to make an edit.
I mean 1314, not 1014.
In 1014 the islamic nations were actually the cultural, economic and intellectual center of the world (Baghdad in particular). Socially, even by today's standards, the Islamic nations were rather advanced.
But then the work of Hamid al-Ghazali became popular and everything went to shit. By 1314 the Islamic nations had regressed incredibly.

General Hentai
General Hentai

Bad analogy. Here's an accurate one: You own a cat, you keep in your own house. Islamic fascists who live in another country have decreed that no one can own cats because they're allergic to cats. Therefore, you need to dispose of your cat, and you're never allowed to own a cat, ever again.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Mmm you think that freedom of speach is you may say EVERYTHING!!!
Than that do you think if someone will publish caricature like this:
12 people laughing and joking around cage with tiger, with stripes in form of half-moon, behind fencing, and in next picture you saw satisfied fat tiger some boones and cameras in blood?
It will not be against law, and it also can be published in world-wide press, why not?

Mederic64
Mederic64

I think that you have all the rights to do this.

camcamblah
camcamblah

ng… are you intended to reply "mostly people" or you just post independet comment
because i confused

thx

Mr. Donuts
Mr. Donuts

Our system is such that you can publish that and if somebody is offended he can try to move against you in court. Were it published in a Muslim country, people offended by this would have no right to go there and kill the authors.

You can say anything a priori. If what you said goes against law, you might face legal consequences. Your trying to publish it does not mean that anybody has got to help you spread your message.

Blackshard
Blackshard

But i dont think anybody will piblish picture like this in France, but why not to do it then you have all right to do so?

DDG
DDG

The right to do make the picture doesn't grant you the right to be read or listened. You can publish in internet, but that doesn't give you the right to be visited by people.

I don't think it's difficult to understand.

General Hentai
General Hentai

That you actually think this wouldn't run in the West, or that anyone would care about it shows that you have absolutely no understanding or comprehension of Freedom of liberty, Freedom of Expression or Freedom of Speech.

Are you aware that, as artwork, in modern art museums has been displayed a work where the "artist" has put a crucifix in a jar of his own urine, and called it "Piss Christ"? Does that offend people? Yes. There've been protests and boycotts of museums which have hosted this, and other artworks, such as a painting portraying the Madonna, smeared with elephant dung.

General Hentai
General Hentai

Continuing: But we don't kill people because of ideas. Islamic fascists do.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Invasion in over country is also way of killing.

Blackshard
Blackshard

"And, lastly, let’s avoid competition about pain, no killing is legitimate, NONE. Look, in a few days, the Boko Haram islamic fanatics razed over 16 villages and killed over 2000 persons. I hope the afterlife exists just so these monsters burn in hell and experience endless excruciating pain ! Sorry for all their victims :("

Sorry, but i cant overlook this ignorance.
Libya was begining of IGIL. This country was destroyed by militants greatly sponsored by NATO, and there was over 50000 victims…. Your country alsowas one of the force that ignite middle East, why you dont take responcibility?

Zorlun
Zorlun

La crise est maintenant finie, les 2 terroristes de Charlie Hebdo et leur complice, ayant assassiné 4 juifs dans une supérette kascher, ont été neutralisés … et maintenant c'est place au débat sans fin du bouc émissaire social que l'on commence à entendre un peu partout : "c'est parce qu'ils était pauvre", "parce que socialement rejetés", "ah non, faut pas dire musulman c'est pas bien"…
Beaucoup de gens refusent de voir le mal chez l'humain et cherchent de bonnes excuses, non, ils étaient humains, français et musulmans et ils ont Choisis avec un grand C de devenir des monstres, des terroristes et des assassins en plus de cela.
Comme tout humain est libre de s'exprimer, tout humain est libre de choisir, et donner des circonstances atténuantes à des monstres est une erreur irrespectueuse envers les victimes.
On ne devient pas criminel, on Choisit de le devenir.

Ara
Ara

Je chipote mais on ne choisit pas forcemment de devenir un criminel: un "bon" endoctrinement peut y pousser. Et contre ca, j'imagine que seul l'esprit critique est efficace, et donc un bon système éducatif.

Le plus important à mon avis c'est d'inculquer que la liberté individuelle s'arrete la ou celle des autres commence.

Après perso j'en ai aussi ma claque de voir autant de tolérance face à autant d'intolérance. Les islamistes utilisent la liberté comme une arme contre elle meme, et là faut arreter les conneries !

random guy
random guy

is this reliable?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/201

badmouthing france president in 3…2…1… :v

Mederic64
Mederic64

This was badly translated I believe. I think Hollande meant that he wouldn't associate the fanatics with the muslims who wouldn't do such a thing.

camcamblah
camcamblah

sorry I'm doing so bad in english. can you tell me the difference between them? thx

Blackshard
Blackshard

Soldiers that was bombing Iraq mostly was Catholics and Protestants, why not kill all catholics and protestants just to be sure that noone of them dont do it again?

Mederic64
Mederic64

Tu ne peux quand même pas nier qu'il subsiste des causes qui sont propices à la criminalité.

camcamblah
camcamblah
MegaHentai
Rhizome
Rhizome

Didn't you say you were french ? Didn't you know there are laws in this country ?
Like the "freedom of speech" one ? Did you read it thoroughly ? I seriously doubt it…
You should read the third paragraph of the law, articles 29 to 35 (28 of july, 1881, consolidated version of march 2008).
And as we say and repeat every day : "racism is a felony, not an opinion".

To sum it up : No, we can't say whatever we like, or at least we shouldn't if we didn't want trials and all. And it's not to be a psychorigid bitch that I'm saying all of that, but just because words can have terrible consequences, fill the heads of people with shit and lead people to hatred and violence. (that we can observe everyday)

camcamblah
camcamblah

I think they just doing it not only to speech their "opinion", but also for for popularity too.
I mean, people will give more response to those kind of "extreme critics" media, and those response will make that media famous easier right?

or maybe i'm wrong?
sorry & thx

Aiel
Aiel

until you prove me wrong, muslim is not a race, it's the people who believe in islam. Making fun of a religion in order to show it's mistake is not racism.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Sooo only make fun of people of over race is forbiden?
Thats why I SAY that Tolerance is just a form of hypocrisy!
And i hope that in my country respect and comprehension will never be replaced by tolerance and
political correctness.

Daedalron
Daedalron

Of course not. There are laws against insult and slander.

The journal was put on trial a few times, by politicians who didn't like being ridiculed for what they did/say. It was also sued once by Muslim associations, for the drawing of Muhammad Oliver posted.

They won in Court. the Court said that the drawings were not targeting muslims, but clearly the integrists, and are therefore not ambiguous and allowed as satire.

Blackshard
Blackshard

You know, varivature like Jesus fuck st.Peter is stupid and filth. If your judge think thats funny i dont think that its allowed.

DDG
DDG

Stupid and filth doesn't make it ilegal or an excuse to kill the artist. Not being funny doesn't make it illegal or an excuse to kill the artist (or there would be a loss less comedians). And it's not "your" judge, a judge applies the law, so it's a country's judge.
I don't think you are thinking.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Then i hope this 12 fools will be granted by Darwin Awards, because it will be really fun and all must laugh over it.

Tsurugi_Matsuda
Tsurugi_Matsuda
aRip
aRip

i agree with you Rhizome.
Freedom of Speech is not same as freedom to insult.
even in "freedom" , people must have some boundaries they can't crossed.
Because we live in a society, we must know the limit what other people cannot tolerate.
in the US a lot of races,religion and community must live together, even people with physical dissability have their own community.
Tolerance is the word.
(example: calling black people nigger or mexican a beaner, is very offensive, even for a joke.)

lol
lol

argh why is this on a hentai blog, times must be spent posting the hentais!

ok, so this my serious mode: people are not looking at the bigger picture, this is blowback. And now Muslims will suffer similar hatred the Jewish suffered all through out Europe in the 1920s era, its already happening. they are the new scapegoat for all terrorism – even though in France, there was a terrorist attack by fanatic Israeli's some time ago. For recourse, study of geo-politics is required.

Here's what will happen – Hollande, the DAY before this happened signed a draconian law that will allow the French state to spy more on French citizens. Unwittingly these, these few radicals have assisted the Borgeouis in their agenda. It bears reminding that many Muslims right now (even a Muslim cop was slain in this incident!) have beared an intense racist environment for over a decade now, its pretty bad in Europe. This is a repeat of what is occuring throughout the Western world as liberties are consistently stripped away by radical, fascistic policies.

Radicalism has been on the rise mainly due to U.S. adventures overseas illegally meddling in other countries affairs, through force or coercion. So this event is blowback for exactly that, not any silly cartoon, that's small potatoes in the bigger picture. Secondly, this may not even have happend at all if NATO countries such as France, in alliance with the United States were not sending money and arms to terrorist rebels in Syria. Remember to follow the information – these radicals got back from a little terror adventure in Syria where they likely received their weaponry from outside State forces (i.e. State Sponsored Terrorism).

Regular (albeit racist) French citizens, the vocal variety, have been calling for actual genocide of Muslims. Most of the authorities are now investigating such people like that thinking freedom of speech means they can say stuff like "genocide" – the geneva convention however over rules that.

jlassijlali
jlassijlali

so funny no one care about the rouhungia who died every day in nianmar or the muslimthat woh lost her child
when people just beet her in !!!!!! really crazy what people talk
in japon anime they ansult islam they just go tell my right….. my freedom you must respect me?????
they just said we are sorry… and we will never d othe some twice they have respect … they know that they are have do somthink bad
so for me a man how have no respect to ather he didnt deserfe to be a live he didnt deserve to be human
it no deffrint between hurt people by you fist or your pen both can kill

alcalshel
alcalshel

Just one question , if the cartoonist do something absolutely right , then why he needs almost dozen police to protect him.

It's obvious that even the cartoonist himself and the police knows that what he did is always hurting many people and that makes his life danger. I don't know about you but for me i want to go anywhere live anywhere without looking my back all time.

Daedalron
Daedalron

He had only one policeman as protection (which was also killed in the attack, btw), because he received death threats in 2011 IIRC.

They're a satirical journal, so of course what they do irks people, that's the point in satire ! But the point for those cartoonists was not attacking the religion in itself. The specific image Oliver used in the other post, for example, isn't insulting Muhammad or his teachings, it's insulting the extremists islamists by saying Muhammad would be ashamed of their doings.

jlassijlali
jlassijlali

like there only that idea …….to tell that opinion??????????????
you can draw a man tell mohammed will never love this ..
++++++++++++++++++
you can draw 100 idea about that opinion … why draw mohammed ???????
it just to sell and be racisme … look japon in some game or anime insult islam … they said sorry and stop they respect people .
people whith thout respect worst than terrorist ………. at list for me ……
this mans just stand behind the word freedom of opinion hhhhhh they just scam and the worst of human

DDG
DDG

Why not? Making a doodle should never offend any rational, mature or normal person. If you are offended by a drawing, then please, seek psychological help.

You believe you should not draw Mohammed? then please don't do it. But don't enforce your believes in anybodu else. Is like the catholics, they believe in no using condoms and try to enforce that nobody can use condoms. If you can't understand that people not sharing your believes do things that go against them (like eating pork) and is not trying to fault you or to offend you, please seek psycological help.

The thought that because tragedy exists and people die in war zones and in some countries justifies killing unrelated people just because they happen to live in a particular country and make doodles is retarded, and proves how little you value human life. Also belittles the fact that in most of those countries radical muslims are killing normal muslims.

There was a time when muslim people didn't take themselves so seriously: they were the most advanced civilization both cultural and scientifically on that time. The went downhill from there and now in most of those countries they behave as people did on the most obscure centuries of the middle ages.

Blackshard
Blackshard

#The thought that because tragedy exists and people die in war zones and in some countries justifies killing unrelated people just because they happen to live in a particular country and make doodles is retarded, and proves how little you value human life. Also belittles the fact that in most of those countries radical muslims are killing normal muslims. #
Maybe yo will remember that from the hands of NATO and american soldiers died in 10 times more people than from islamist?

#There was a time when muslim people didn't take themselves so seriously: they were the most advanced civilization both cultural and scientifically on that time. The went downhill from there and now in most of those countries they behave as people did on the most obscure centuries of the middle ages. #
And maybe it was because of centuaries of colonies enslavement?

Daedalron
Daedalron

"And maybe it was because of centuaries of colonies enslavement?"
Argument invalid. They went downhill way on their own, way before the colonial era.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Yes, as every country went on that route in the time feudal fragmentation, but they has no chance to flourish again. Then China has this chance thrn they thrown off the yoke of foreign control, and began to develop in their own interests.

Blackshard
Blackshard
jlassijlali
jlassijlali

is not funny you see that in islamic newspaper ?????????, or news who tell thats it is their freedom????????????????????????
????????????????????????????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
how i puplish une idea …that hurt people when i have can use ather metod to do the some without hurt any body???????????
this just stupid ………..
i tell you to do somthink hurt the people and what they bellive and you know it …
you are worst million time than terrorist

DDG
DDG

No, it was in that same frech magazine, and no cristian/catholic though of killing them.
They probably sued them, complained about them or just joked about them, but no one would justify killing over that, no one on their right mind.
You think that doodle is worst than terrorism? Than to kill innocent 12 year old girls in Pakistan because they want to get educated? Than to blow up a mosque because the people going there is not radical enough and doesn't share your ideas? Then you are crazy,

Blackshard
Blackshard

maybe you know idiom like "pen mightier than the sword shall smite"
Many Christians hate them by this pictures and maybe only law was stopping them. And then they start to provoke muslim and they take what they wantes.

DDG
DDG

If you go to China and say that the government is corrupt, that you can prove it would you need protection? If you go to Mexico and you find proves against drug cartels, would you need protection? If in Germany on the 1930s you publicly said Hitler was crazy and that killing jews was bad, would you need protection? Would you be doing something bad?

Why do you assume that bad people need protection? Usually killers, criminals, mafiosos and terrorist don't need much protection, but the people proscuting them or talking about them do.

Blackshard
Blackshard

so you comparing real criminals with religious symbols. You must to go deeper went in Vatikan and say that Jesus was 30-years virgin who in secret fapping on Magdalen and now you praying to him. And dont forget to laugh)

just another muslim
just another muslim

Hi Oliver,

Think if you would replace "muslims" with "hard/radical/etc muslims" in all your postings, you would be pointing yourself in the right direction. All religions are tolerant, just people pervert their meaning and extremes happen. Lumping everyone in the same category does not show the fairness western culture embraces.

Ara
Ara

"All religions are tolerant" –> dafuq ?

Doesn't the Quran says that a woman's words are worth half that of a man and that they are unfit for education and work ?

So you mean that this religion can't be considered intolerant because women are not human being ? Do you know that now in France animals have more rights than muslim women ? :p

Blackshard
Blackshard

You never meet orthodox Jews? There was situation then girl that went in mini-skirt in one of their district was chased away by stones.

Sands
Sands

"All religions are tolerant"

No, of course not. Some religions (guess which one) teach its followers to kill people who leave their faith. Also some of them fly airplanes into buildings.

"Think if you would replace "muslims" with "hard/radical/etc muslims" in all your postings, you would be pointing yourself in the right direction."

No. The majority of muslim immigrants in Europe are what we would call radical, so no qualifier is needed. For example, 73% of muslims in France believe religious law (that is, sharia, where offending the prophet is punishable with death) is more important than secular law (that is, freedom of speech).

See http://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u8/ruud_koo

Blackshard
Blackshard

Are you really know that there are muslim that do not accept shariat?
In my bountry there are muslims like that! Not all of their woman wearing hijab many walking outside in very fashionable cloth, AND DO YOU BELIVE THAT noone hitting them by stones!
But they attend mosque and do namas at least once in a week.

Sands
Sands

It's hard to understand what you mean.

People think that the muslims supporting sharia law are a crazy minority, like 0.1%, when actually they are the majority, around 73% in France. That's what I wanted to emphasize and inform people about.

That, and that the silly notion that all religions are tolerant. Tell me, what is the punishment for leaving islam?

Blackshard
Blackshard

"It's hard to understand what you mean."
I mean that there are part of islam that dont accept death for all tha against shariat, BUT they dont kill for that but often they get killed by those who live by shariat.

"That, and that the silly notion that all religions are tolerant. Tell me, what is the punishment for leaving islam? "
It depends of country and their law. For e[ample in the land of best friend of all civilized West that supplies them with oil (yeah i mean Emirates) its a Death penalty.
But in the horrible wild lands of crazy dictators (like Libya, Syria (Iran at least before citadel of democracy kill their progressive leader in 50th)) there are no law about this(

Klem
Klem

I find it funny that there are quite a few Muslims in here defending action against the newspaper, because relgion is > civil liberties to them.

Funny cause self abuse is forbiddon, yet they come to a porn website to do just that.

jlassijlali
jlassijlali

it is not about to be muslim or not
you do somthink insult peoplewhen you can do it without this insult
just stupid and racisme ,,,,
this sit gif the work and freedom of ather mangaka and know that isnot right
and tell as about rspectt the ather ?????

Blackshard
Blackshard

Do you know what is funny?)
That you think that I AM muslim too)))
Maybe this upset you but no I'm not muslim)
You have another three try to get who i am)

little man
little man

Oliver, one thing you should know about prophet mohammed is: it's very sacred and sensitive to muslim, so, when someone use mohammed it in any media whether in jokes, caricature, even painting, expect some overreaction even violence. So, whatever your reason, they won't accept it. If you want to make argument/reasoning about freedom of speech with them, there's no room for it.

You don't need to understand it, I just want to said this to you.
You don't need to make them understand, they won't accept it, they don't need it.

Believe me, I know this, because I'm a muslim. I just want to share this to you

DDG
DDG

There's some people that consider they football club sacred. Whenever someone makes fun of it or points out some of it limitations, they can overract, and break shops' windows, public furniture or kill people.

That is mostly similar to what you are saying, and there's a place for such people. Depending on the country and the crime they are judged and executed or judged and impriosioned for as long as the law permits.

Probably most muslims would feel offended, mind you, but I doubt most would overreact. Most would ignore the guy, sue them or just live with it. Some would actually rebuke and argue back. Like civilized people. The problem is the criminals who feel they should kill people because they feel offended.

Blackshard
Blackshard

You know that then some journalist offend over thay can apologize and dont do it in future because THEY HAVE MORAL PRINCIPLES. And there was overs who just laugh and start offend more and moooooreee!!!

Just case from one serial not real life:
Cafe in Italy company of 5 young people not very smart or culture but wealthy seat there almost 6 hours in day.
And muslim couple comes in a cafe. Very rich and of corse wife in full-defence. What reaction from young mens?
– Look look she's wearing bag over hrad.
-Do you think she so affraid of sun or just too ugly to wear it off?
Couple bought coffee and do not pay attention to morons.
– And how she will drink it?
– Maybe through a straw?
She lift cloth a litlle and drink.
Husband say:
-Dont pay attention to them, they just like monkeys.
And of course that was abusively by young mens, and they say:
– How do you think then she suck his dick, she also only lift her mask?
-OH its exiting i also want to try this!

You must be really agree with this people, but if i was there i maybe hit them.

Raph
Raph

Too bad you keep avoiding built answers. Many people have answered to you for the 3 last days, and you keep going.
There are stupid people everywhere, there is no point in pointing them like you do in your italian story.

Like Oliver said : it is our laws. You may dislike them, but it is our way of being.
I'm sorry you feel offended. But in France your ideas may offend anyone, you are free to share them.
And even if you're a religious person, I'm sure you can understand that : NO rule, in any religion, should prevail against the rest of the world. Never.
You can't draw the Prophet under the religion of Islam. Right. But this rule doesn't apply to everyone on Earth. Islam doesn't prevail.

Blackshard
Blackshard

Then why they try to publish this picture in as many source as they want?

Raph
Raph

I don't understand your sentence.
Who "they"?

This drawing is lawful in France. Anyone can publish it.
Blame the law if you want.
You're free to not read it. You're free to blame the people in any newspaper who would like to publish you, in any forum.

You're not free to kill them.
And that's the only point here.

little man
little man

Raph, like I said before, some people won't understand it, because from the beginning they refuse to accept it..

Jose
Jose

@Blackshard the answer to your question is, because they can. Their limit is the law of the country. And if you live in France, it's your law too. No foreign law supersedes it. If you don't like to live under these set of rules governing France, you can move out to a country where the set of rules, is commanded by your religion. But in France, if you kill someone you are arrested or killed, and people reatalliate against you and your beliefs. Do you see any purpose in people killing, and being killed in response? Are you looking for a reward in the afterlife?

little man
little man

again, like I said before, some people won't understand it, because from the beginning they refuse to accept it..

Blackshard
Blackshard

Then what to do people of country that was destroed by foreign army and they cant do nothing with them?

Hroldor
Hroldor

There you have it, Oliver. Spoken from multiple people here. Religion and sacred images/artifacts is more important than civil liberties, no matter what nation. Several here have said they do not want tolerance and acceptance, they want action against any negative outlook. Old world culture vs new world ideals. Only time will tell which comes out on top(My money is on ideals long term).

JD from Jakarta
JD from Jakarta

Sincere condolences to you and your country, from a "muslim" in Indonesia. I am from a mixed religious background, my father a protestant christian and my mother a muslim, and I respect both traditions and culture even though I would not consider myself to be religious at all or else i wouldnt be here in a hentai blog! right? fappin' to hentai will sends us straight to fuckin' hell right?

Kidding aside, what happened at your home country was truly a sorrowful and gruesome event, it fills me up with natural fury (and i can imagine you feel the same, more or less) and the day these kinds of injustice stops from happening, it is the day the world becomes finally perfect. Like i said, i came from a mixed religious background so its kinda safe to say that i am no stranger to muslims and the religion itself, and i dare to say that the misfortune that fell upon our brothers and sisters over at France is in no fucking way justified or supported or endorsed by any muslims or the islam teachings here. Because thats the thing when you talk about a religion or any guild, within those guilds there are always sub-guilds with some variations on their beliefs, some lean to the lenient side, and some lean to the extreme side.Any group of people really. We can kind of say the same about that to your taste of hentai too, some like it tame and some like it extreme, so which side you lean to?

The statistics shows (as of 2014) that the number of total muslims in the whole world is around 1,580,000,000 people. I'm sure the numbers of these extremists bastards are way, way less than that. To give a shabby example of scale, the number of the whole Al-Qaeda cell was less than 10.000 men. So I hope what occured didn't break your sense of faith in your muslim friends or muslim countrymen, because it will be unfortunate for both you and them if you just give them no chance and bunch em up with the rest of the turd for brains… The muslim community in France is also non-hostile and peaceful as far as I know, i saw them practice shalat jum'at (islamic friday religious prayer) like they do here in Indonesia, celebrate ramadhan etc. without secluding themselves too much from the rest of the public.

I hope your faith and by that extension; France's faith in peace and fellowship will soon be healed without taking too much time, and this event do not divide the people into unnecessary sides because it will make us forget that the truth is we human beings are of One. France is a beautiful place, love walking at night in Paris and strolling around at the Louvre looking at art with my bro and ma (the Mona Lisa is always too fuckin' crowded just go see something by Raphael Santi or Caravaggio lol ;D ) I stayed at a Mercure hotel just across Gare du Nord station for one week a few years back. I wish to return and I hope France will not decline; but if it does change so be it as long as its for its own betterment :D

And with that, let me conclude with a simple tale that relates to all this;

A Hajj (Islamic priest) and Tabib student (ancient Islamic medicine student) are quested by the mosque to deliver a pouch of medicine to sick people in the village way across the desert. As night fell upon them, they were tired, cold and already ran out of provision. The desert night can be chilling and unforgiving, while now the only thing they have is the cure and the Qur'an. Knowing that his student is in suffering, he started a little fire and burned the Qur'an to warm him and his student up to get through the night, so they can continue the delivery of the cure.

Realizing this, the student shouted in surprise, "Astaghfirullah azeem (which literally means, 'Allah the great I ask for your forgiveness' a common 'omigod' or 'jeezus chriss' in muslim culture), why are you doing this, Hajj? Its our holy book, its the word of Allah. Allah and Muhammad himself is it!". To that the Hajj retorts calmly, "My student Tabib, as long as it still burns away to ashes and embers as you now see, then it can never be Allah, nor the prophet Muhammad"

JD from Jakarta, Indonesia

UndstndiNcomprmisE
UndstndiNcomprmisE

i see a lot of hypocrisy with the citizens of the western nation.

i guess within France it is okay to make fun other other peoples religion publicly. i guess it is okay and within the law of France to make fun of other people base on race color lauguage religion or whatnot as a public company.
if u guy so do believe in teh individual freedon of speech and action what what as long as it within the law. then u gonn ahve ot accpet as these extremist and their actions.

within the country fo France and their intrepetation of morality they make laws and humanity right base on their intrepetation of how things should be.
within the organiztion of the these extremem muslim their too also make intrepitation of their holy book and make law and code or morality to live by as well.

KEEP IN MIND THAT ONE PERSON INTERPRETATION OF THE SAME THING IS DIFFERENT FROM ANOTHER PERSON.

they HolyBible have 10billion different version because each SCAMMERs have its own intrepretation of it to milk the massive of all their wealth to FATTEN their wallet.

in these case, those newspaper print paper to make $$$ at the expanse of another group religion and since it legal within their nation law they said it okay to do so.
these muslim then reaction by killing these newpaper people and it the end of teh world. have u guy ever consider that maybe by these extreme muslim twisted intrepitition of their cod eof life book that such retaliation was all lawfull and totaly legal in their organization.

France as a country is still one massive organization
these extreme muslim as a group is one small organization

none theless both are still just group of people gatherign iwth one common goal and set of morality. they both may be on opposit end but both are still jsut organization made fo people.

according to orgaization A law, it okay to trash others religion figure head but not okay to kill
according to organization B law, it not okay to trash this figure head figure but its okay to kill
when 2 law from 2 organization collide, their have to be compromise. both side have to give a bit.
it just sad that in this case, organization A decide that they will not back down on their law and right to make fun of others religion and keep making fun of organizaiton B religion
GroupB then decide that if that is the case, then they will not back down on their rights to kill as well and kill group A.

u all are right that this is teh 21 century it it shouldnt have com to these. both side should have beign civilize enough to work it out.

GroupA just stupidly and blindly believe that making fun of others is okay since it is legal within their law, they will keep at it. they fail to see that From groupB prespertive such action is consider a mortal sin and is totally against the law.

GroupB just stupidly and blindly believe that kill others is okay since it legal within their law, they will just keep at it. they fail to see that from GroupA perspetice such action is consider a mortal sin and is totally against the law.

2 group of stupid people who fail to respect each others and the views of others and as a end result groupA just got pwnz. nothign more nothign less.

GroupA are not some innocent group of people. they are a group of greedy people. they decided to make a living at the expanse of other. they decided to take teh evil route. throw insult at those who are nto the same as them. makign big buck at the humiliation and insult and expanse of others. in most case, people such as groupA will make billions and live to spend it. but in this case, the group they try to expoit hit back and it hit back hard wiping them out.
in a business deal, group A just had bad business sense.

Treat others how u want to be treated is a simple rule to live by.

im not Christian or Catholic or Muslim. i was raise treat others hwo i want to be treat. when taken action alway consider teh consiquence of ur action and other people view point b4 u act. u dont just take a guy and point it at soem innocent person who walk by and pull the trigger just to experiement to see how they will react to u blowing up their head.

Blackshard
Blackshard

I belive in one thing:
Freedom of one ends there start freedom of overs.
Thats all.

UndstndiNcomprmisE
UndstndiNcomprmisE

– Third point, the limits of free speech. It’s true, there are limits. The law defines them. So, you, the muslims, if you don’t like that my country allows those parodies, you are entirely free to try to talk to all politicians about it, and only vote (if you’re French) for politicians supporting stronger censorship.
Until then, if we the French make cartoons ridiculing the jews, the catholics, Muhammad and the muslims, it is normal that we can do so (once again : we won’t be talking about anything anymore if we accept a group has the right to silence us on a topic offending them, because after this we’d have to accept requests to shut up from everyone else too).

– Third point, the limits of free action. It’s true, there are limits. The law defines them. So, you, the French if you don’t like that extreme Muslim allows these killings, you are entirely free to try to talk to all exteme Muslim about it, and only vote (if you’re an extreme Muslim) for Leadership supporting less killing.
Until then, if extremeMuslim keep killing the jews, the catholics, Jesus Christ and the Chritian, it is normal that exteme muslim can do so (once again : ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….).

if both side dont consider each others view point, come to a understanding and compromise so that both side can coexsit. if they both are aggrogant egotistical who truely and blindly that they are the center of the universe and its their way or the highway, then we will have the above statement for all enternity.

little man
little man

come on buddy, many has explained that already, some people refuse to accept it..

Sands
Sands

Hahah, sure.

If group A believes that no people should be killed because of blasphemous drawings, and group B believes that all people should be killed because of blasphemous drawings, I guess we will just have to compromise!

We should, like, kill half of the cartoonists, that seems like a good compromise.

Blackshard
Blackshard

maybe you try ti think by your head?
Group B wants that group A dont blasphemy that is sacred to them. Arent they warned them?

Sands
Sands

Group B can go live somewhere else where blasphemy is forbidden for all I care. There are plenty of sharia hell holes in the middle east where blashphemy is forbidden.

You don't get to make rules for other people by being offended and threatening them with violence ("warning" them) if they don't do as you say.

Blackshard
Blackshard

I think group B succeeded whit their task. Now then blasphemy will flaw not only from one litlle journal but from all press in France because THATS PROTECTION OF THEIR FREEDOM!!! sooooo maaaany young muslim will want to join with ISIS, even if before that they even dont know anything about Charle.

Raph
Raph

"Treat others how u want to be treated is a simple rule to live by".

Yeah right.
They made fun of people… And I guess they were ready to be treated the same way : that some people made fun of them !
Correct?
It is as far as it should go.

And if I follow your way of thinking, people who asked for their deaths or who are happy of them being killed should be…. ? Treated the same way?

Blackshard
Blackshard

But radical islamist havent world-wide Press that published in west, but they have guns. Its their way of protest.

Raph
Raph

Was Charlie Hebdo published in radical Islamists' lands? No.
Do people who want to watch Extremists' videos or read their messages in west can? Yes.
Did radical islamists protest after Charlie's drawings? Yes, and the message was heard worldwide.
So either you're misinformed, or you're saying crap in purpose.

Killing people is a "way of protest" ?
Okay, now I'm done with you.

Sekai Rim
Sekai Rim

man, this is weird. reading these full of hatred comments in this and previous oliver's post after fapping. i'm just gonna leave this website for a while and stay away from the sick website followers/regulars. hentai rules has somehow upset me. i was expecting more people with rational thinking around here. well, i guess that is just my rainbow-coloured dream. well, see ya. i'll stick with fakku for now. thanks for all the good time u have given me

nanana
nanana

well, if you carefully read all these comments, you can count maybe less than 3 names who give hatred comments here (also the previous post), the rest ARE still rational thinking people here, LoL

Mutsume
Mutsume

bad jokes gone wrong, simple as that

sheeesh time to get out of here, won't be coming here until god knows when

Leta
Leta

The sad thing is, I was barely surprised by this. Just as I was reading up a follow-up article on another journalist who had been killed while biking, I received death threats, insults, and called a horrible human being for saying 'religions are different' and 'religions should be respected; extremists are the ones to hate' on a children's website where the TOS says that kind of stuff it not allowed.

When I complained, I had three accounts banned and the site won't explain anything. The site is based in California, with the legal department in Tennessee.

itoyokofan
itoyokofan

>Oliver: But – before anything more – please, it's pointless to have a "being a victim" competition. We're not comparing the size of our dicks.
I'm not measuring dicks. What I'm talking is that you cannot reason with those idiots. So don't even bother to think about how you have to behave from now on. The only one who fight them are special forces, the only one who suffer are commoners. The more society gives a fuck about terrorists the more it supports them. The march you had today in France is a victory for you as well as it's a victory for them. The only ones who loose are muslims and sand people.

Supyo
Supyo

Indonesian moslem here yo, accessing ur website using office's internet in office hour (like a boss) since that goddamn minister of information blocks access to ur site from my mobile data plan.

Anyway, im sick of conspiracy shit. Really, it could be anyone that did it. It could be isis, or maybe al qaeda, or mossad / cia, or indonesian thugs (fpi/fbr/pp). Too many theories going around to the point of i dont care anymore. So lets just leech the latest completed hentai manga, and just fap till u drop. That way at least youre contributing to the world peace.

TRUSTNO1
TRUSTNO1

are u kidding me?!
in a hentai website???
Seriously???
UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Elldallan
Elldallan

@aRip WRONG, if you let what people cannot “tolerate” dictate what can be said then nothing at all can ever be said because it will be untolerable to somebody somewhere, or when somebody doesn’t like your opinion then they will decide that it is intolerable.
Yes there should be some limits, such as hate speech. But those limitations should be cautious and liberal.

Under your system what happens when vegans decide that proponents of meat eating is untolerable and beef farmers decide that proponents of vegetarianism are untolerable?
Or if Radical Islam decides that caricatures are untolerable what about when somebody decides that Radical Islam is untolerable?

Elldallan
Elldallan

@aRip Yes Tolerance is good but that also means tolerating that people may do things that you don’t approve of, such as making silly caricatures.

If somebody finds those caricatures untolerable then ffs DON’T LOOK AT THEM.